Friday, April 23, 2004
Now, I don't want to get off on a rant here...
A little ranting for a Friday morning...
Duke University is eliminating all 8:00 AM classes from its schedule. (link to Yahoo news story: Duke University Cuts 8 A.M. Classes).
DURHAM, N.C. - Duke University is eliminating 8 a.m. classes and trying to come up with other ways help its sleep-deprived students, who too often are struggling to survive on a mix of caffeine, adrenaline and ambition.
The school is also considering new orientation programs this fall that would help freshmen understand the importance of sleep.
The coddling of college students has reached a new peak. As a college professor, I understand that my students tend to be nightowls. I can deal with this. I also understand that students attempt to cram all of their classes into the 10AM to 2PM time schedule so that they can have their afternoons free. And if you are an athlete you cannot have a 3:00 course as you are getting prepped to go to practice.
Give me a break. My understanding is that part of what college is about is preparing you for the work world. A world where for the most part, you simply cannot wander in to your work place whenver the hell you feel like it. I really don't have much sympathy for students who complain about not getting enough sleep. 18 year olds should be able to figure out how much sleep they need, know how long it takes them to get ready in the morning, know when their first class is and then calculate what time they need to go to bed.
I generally teach 8 o'clock classes every semester. I teach chemistry. I tell the students that complain about the class time that part of my job is preparing them to work as a chemist. And for the vast majority, as a chemist, you get up and get to work before 9:00 AM. Get used to it.
What Duke is doing, in my opinion, is following a trend of catering to student whims. Some colleges no longer schedule any exams for Friday's because they recognize that a lot of students go out drinking on Thursday night. My colleagues who teach on Friday afternoons report seriously decreased attendance, especially weeks before breaks.
I've had students tell me that they will be gone from class for a week in the middle of the semester because they are going on vacation. They of course expect me to understand that and adjust my expectations of them because of it.
Sheesh.
Granted, this is still a minority of students. But it is growing.
09:10 AM in college, Current Affairs
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Comments
I can see your point...but, and you knew a but was coming, right?...when I went to college, I was also working a full time job. I crammed all of my classes into 2 days a week, and started at 8am and went through until 6pm, or sometimes as late as 9pm. I was exhausted! And worked a 40-50 hour work week on top of that. Some kids could use the break, to get more sleep, because they're up until the wee hours of the morning doing homework, papers. But...another one...if you are motivated, you do what you have to do! Heck, I think I just contradicted myself, didn't I? Oh well...
Posted by: Theresa at Apr 23, 2004 9:25:17 AM
You're not ranting, just stating some common sense. Perhaps universities across the country can lift bans on drinking in dorms, and then maybe shorten classes to, let's say, 15 minutes. I mean, after 15 minutes or so, those chairs become awful hard and uncomfortable, and we wouldn't want the next generations of movers and shakers to experience that hardship.
I made it through college, worked two, sometimes three jobs to support myself, had time for friends and recreation, and still managed to find time to sleep. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember something called scheduling, where the student had the option to pick which class they wanted to attend and when.
And before I step down from the soapbox, I should say that I remember signing up for a 7:00 am chemistry class. Not that I loved chemistry, but just the opposite. I was always anxious to get the pain over as soon as possible.
Posted by: Keith at Apr 23, 2004 11:00:09 AM
Pam,
Thanks for the note. I understand the position coming from a non-traditional student. However, for a traditional 18 year old residential student, this argument does not wash. I see it every day. If students are up until 3AM doing homework it is because they wasted time earlier. I still see this as a failure of personal responsibility. The average traditional college student is in the classroom about 12-18 hours per week. If they spend the rest of a 40 hour work week (which few do) doing homework/papers/studying, that is still only 8 hours a day, and plenty of time to have a part time job (we limit our students to 9 hours per week on campus), recreation, sports, and other activities.
Posted by: Doc at Apr 23, 2004 12:12:30 PM
Keith,
Exactly. One of the things I tell my students: "What are you willing to give up, to get where you want to go?" There is sacrifice as well as responsibility involved in getting a college education. It's about making choices. Sure, you can play with your Xbox for 4 hours a day, and hang with your "peeps" for another four, but understand that something somewhere has to give.
Posted by: Doc at Apr 23, 2004 12:16:37 PM
Maybe it's a cost-cutting measure on Duke's part, Doc. If only a few students schedule themselves for that early a time, it's inefficient to pay for the support staff and electricity.
I know I tried once to attend an 8 o'clock class, but only lasted a few weeks before transferring to a later timeslot. But I'll be the first to tell you, my daily routine was atrocious then.
Posted by: pam at Apr 23, 2004 1:11:34 PM
"A world where for the most part, you simply cannot wander in to your work place whenver the hell you feel like it."
At Mom's workplace she's the designated mom. She has to say things like that all the time. (The previous boss had a very lax attitude.)many of her underlings now think of her as The Mean Old Lady.
I liked 8 o'clock classes. That's when I could galumph about and make noise and annoy the people who'd kept me up the night before!
And to quote Fark - "Duke sucks."
Posted by: pops at Apr 23, 2004 2:07:44 PM
I was a Chemistry major at Duke, and somehow I found my way here. The truth of the matter is that everyone does NOT show up to work at 8AM. More specifically, the trend you are seeing is as much a widespread cultural one as one targeted at the college student population. I work from around 9AM to 5:30PM, but I check e-mail from home in the mornings and evenings. At least in the business world, no one is working an 8 hour day, and they are given more latitude in deciding when their hours will be allocated based on business needs. In reality, Duke's system prepares them further for much of the modern work environment because they are not asked to rigorously follow a schedule as dictated... they must learn to allocate their time to accomplish the necessary tasks.
Posted by: Taz Lake at Apr 23, 2004 4:35:52 PM
Taz,
Thanks for the note. I'd be really interested to find out how you made your way to my blog...but that is besides the point.
From my experience in the chemical industry before becoming a college prof, I am still having problems with seeing what Duke is doing as a good thing. A lot of entry level jobs (those that you get with a Bachelor's Degree) still require regular attendance at a set time. Even if there is flex time, it is expected that you will show up at a regular time. Wandering in at 11AM, instead of your regular 9AM, because you were up late the night before (no matter what you were doing) is not accepted. For the majority, it is still essentially a 9 to 5 world, and if your commute is an hour, you are still going to have to get up relatively early.
You state that students "..must learn to allocate their time to accomplish the necessary tasks." My response would be that this is something they should have learned before entering college. If they cannot figure out that they need to get sufficient sleep before being required to perform at a given level, whether it be an exam or simply to participate in class, there is a serious problem. Fixing this problem is, in my opinion, the responsibility of the student, not the institution.
You are correct in stating that nobody works 8 hour days anymore, but this is another reason to suggest that students learn to accept responsibility for getting sleep. If you are going to need to work 12 hours on a given day, it is unlikely that you will be given an hour for a nap in the middle of the work day.
You are most likely right that this is indeed becoming a cultural trend, and if so, I mourn the passing of the old. In one way it makes my life better, as the morning hours I enjoy become much quieter.
-doc
Posted by: Doc at Apr 23, 2004 5:07:43 PM
Doc,
At the high school level students are coddled like newborn babies. Anytime something happens, the first thing the parents and students and unfortunately sometimes administrators do is point the finger at the teacher. If Jonny didn't turn in his research paper on time, why didn't I call his parents? That sort of thing. It makes me sad to see that this mentality is making its way to higher ed.
Posted by: Fully at Apr 24, 2004 1:43:45 PM
